Research done by James W. Petty, Genealogist (1990-1991)

Pres. John A. Larsen                       		            May 10, 1990
2004 Terra Linda Dr.
Salt Lake City, Utah 84124

Dear Pres. Larsen:

	I am delighted to be working with you on your family history.  From these initial 
searches I can see that there are excellent records, and the prospects for carrying the 
Titensor and. related lines back are very good.  As with all lines there are areas of 
difficulty, such as in this case with the spellings of the name, but that will not hinder our 
efforts a great deal.
	This first period of research is a study in review and evaluation.  The research is 
of a general nature to find out what work has been done in the past and what records exist.  
It is also to aquaint me with your family.   You've lived with them for many years, and are 
familiar with certain aspects of them, while they are all new people to me and I must 
become friends with them as quickly as possible.
	As I explained in our initial discussion, it appears to me that very little has been 
accomplished on the family line, and thus it is "a field, ready to harvest". Virtually nothing 
has been identified about the family since the first temple work was performed by the 
original immigrant family.  Some research and work was performed in the teens, and a 
little more in the 1930's but little or nothing of consequence was found at those times.  
Again like I mentioned in our previous conversation, I believe this is due to  the spelling 
of the family name Titensor as Tidser in the Manchester area.  Apparently the name was 
originally Titensor but with time became abbreviated to Tidsor.  It is also commonly 
spelled as Tidsey.  I found the spelling of the name as Tidsey or Tidsor common among 
the members of the family of Thomas Tidsor (1778-1849) and his children and 
grandchildren.  This family almost never used the name Titensor.  One son William did 
use the Tittensor spelling when he married and also when to of his children were 
christened.  The name was used as Tidsor and Tidsey in the family of Edward Tidsor as 
well.  The exception to the rule in this family was Thomas Tidsor (1829-1907).  As he 
became educated (he learned to read the scriptures) he began spelling his name as Titensor.  
He was Thomas Tidsor in his initial L.D.S. Membership Records in 1848, but by 1852 
he spelled his name as Titensor.  It remained that during the rest of his life.
          As mentioned in our discussion, I initially searched the Archive sheets, and IGI 
(International Genealogy Index), to identify what temple work had or hadn't been done.  
From these sources I learned about Edward Tidsor's first family, for which temple 
ordinance work had already been done.  I also found that Edward's second marriage to 
Ann Whittaker Richardson had been located through the extraction program.  Temple 
work had been done for her as Nancy Richardson in 1885 in Logan, but nothing more 
had been given to identify her.  Nancy is the familiar name (or nickname) for Ann.  I 
obtained a copy of the marriage record in Cathedral Church in Manchester for their marriage 
in 1841.  It gave his address as 3 Sandford St. Manchester.  I searched the city directories 
of Manchester from 1820 to 1874.  In the period of 1840 to 1861 I found no mention of 
Edward Titensor, and in fact found no mention of that spelling until the 1870's.  When some 
of the children of William Titensor began to appear in the records.  I did find Thomas 
Tidsor or Tidsey at 3 Sandford Street.  In fact he appeared at that address from 1828 to 
1846, and Joseph Tidser appeared at the nearby Pott Street address.
          From here I went to the 1851 census, which has a published index.  I found two 
Titensors, but the record was so poorly filmed that it was almost impossible to decipher.  
I then found entries for Joseph Tedsor, and also for Edward Tidsor.  I didn't copy Joseph 
at first because I really didn't know if he was a brother to Edward or not.  I copied the 
record for Edward, in which he stated that he was born in the Community of Droylesden 
(just east of Manchester) in 1805.  His wife Nancy was born in Leeds, Yorkshire.  
Edward was listed with five children, Thomas age 21, Frederick age 15, Edward age 9, 
John age 7, and Reuben age 5.   Edward's daughter Emma was living as a servant in a 
nearby home, and she was age 20.
          This record established that Edward had had three sons by his second marriage, 
none of which had had his temple work completed.  No work had been done for Edward Jr. 
or John Tidsor, but the baptism had been performed for Reuben Titensor, on April 8, 
1913 at Logan, which I found during a later search of the temple records.
          Upon receiving approval from you to proceed with the research, I began studying 
the information that you gave me and started with the early LDS Church records.  I found 
the first mentions of Thomas Tidsor in the LDS Branch and District records for 
Manchester, England.  He was born Oct 27, 1829 in Manchester, very likely at the home 
on Sandford St.  He was baptized a member of the Church on 17 Dee 1848, by James 
Newton. Thomas's sister Emma also joined the Church in 1849, giving her birth as Mar. 
31, 1831 in Manchester.  She apparently didn't remain active in the church, and her 
rebaptism and temple work was performed for her in 1886.  By 1852 Thomas appears 
in the Branch records under the name Titensor.  I found reference to a journal that was 
kept by James Newton from 1844 to 1857, but I haven't had a chance to see it at the 
Historian's office.  It might mention the Titensor family in England.
          The British Immigration records and the Port of New York passenger lists show 
that Thomas Titensor left Liverpool with his family on April 23, 1861, and arrived in 
America on May 15, 1861.  I searched the TIB (Temple Index Bureau) which is an 
index of LDS endowment records prior to 1970, and began searching the Logan Temple 
Baptisms for the dead based on the clues found in the T.I.B.  In the early days of the 
church an endowment session could last for six hours, and consequently only a limited 
number of endowments were completed, especially considering that members often had 
to plan their temple trips on a yearly basis if that often be cause of the difficulty in 
getting to a temple, and leaving their crops and herds for any length of time.  However, 
doing Baptisms for the Dead required no such time constraint, and often many baptisms 
were performed with the anticipation that  someday the endowments would be completed.  
Consequently this is a very good source of new information for early LDS families.
          In 1884, Susanna Titensor Larsen, did baptisms for her grandmother Mary 
Rogerson, providing birth and death dates.  She also did work for Great Grandmother 
Mary Rogerson.  We know these individuals.  She did work for her Aunt in Law Harriet 
Baxter of Liverpool.  This is a person who married either a brother of Thomas Titensor, 
or a Brother of Sarah Robbins.  We don't know at this point.   A year later in 1885, 
Thomas Titensor went to the temple and did baptisms for his father Edward Titensor, 
whom he said was born in Lancashire England in 1807 
and died in 1868.  Also for Thomas Titensor his grandfather, who was born in 
Staffordshire, and died in Manchester in 1849.  He also did work for Philip Rogerson, 
who was born at St. Ellen's, in Lancashire, and died at Manchester in 1860.
          In 1886, Susanna did work for grandmother Ann Penlison, who was born in 
Wales. Also for a second cousin, Betsey Drinkwater who died in 1849.  She also did 
work for several aunts, most of which are unknown to me.  Susanna Wesley who died 
in 1874 in Manchester, and Elizabeth Wesley.  Also an Elizabeth Lefton or Lofton who 
was born in 1829, and died 18 Jan 1882.
          As I was studying the IGI and extracting all Tidsor/Tidsey entries that appeared 
to apply to your line, I found the marriage of an Ann Drinkwater, formerly Tidsey, who 
married John Abbott on May 27, 1850.  This also showed that she was a widow and a 
daughter of Thomas Tidsey.  Later when searching the 1851 census for Abbotts I found 
Ann Abbott living near Sandford St. with her daughters Anna Drinkwater age 17, and 
Catrina and Elizabeth Abbot age I month.  In the 1841 Census I found the widow Ann 
Drinkwater, with her daughters Mary 14, Elizabeth 12, Hannah 7, and son William age 5.  
I searched the IGI for a christening record for Elizabeth (Betsey) Drinkwater, and found 
a listing for Elizabeth, daughter of Thomas and Ann Drinkwater at Manchester on June 
24, 1831.  This didn't fit the age on the census, but when I looked up the original entry, 
a notation was given that showed that she was born Nov. 24, 1828.  Perfect!  She is 
the one who is a second cousin to Susanna Titensor Larsen.  And her record confirms 
that her mother was a Tidsor before marriage.  After the death of Thomas Drinkwater 
prior to 1841, widow Ann remarried to John Abbott in 1850.
          I next compiled the information that I had found, and typed it into my computer 
using the Church PAF computer program.  Then I made notations on the sheets for which 
dates I needed and which Items I needed to make photocopies of and directed my 
research from there.  I obtained copies of the pertinent events.  I got copies of the church 
records showing the marriage of Edward Tidsor to Mary Rogerson in 1829, and the 
marriage of Joseph Tidsor to Hannah Bentley in 1833.  I also got a record of an Elizabeth 
Tidsor to James Siddell in 1832.  These early parish register entries didn't provide names 
of parents, but as I looked at the information I saw that the witness to the marriage of 
Edward Tidsor was Joseph Bentley.  The witness to Elizabeth Tidsor Siddell's marriage 
was then unmarried Hannah Bentley, and the witness to the marriage of Joseph Tidsor to 
Hannah Bentley was Elizabeth Syddell.  I reasoned that Elizabeth must have been a 
daughter of Thomas Tidsor and therefore a sister to Joseph and Edward Tidsor.  I 
confirmed it later.  I also got marriage records for Edward Jr., John, and Reuben 
Tidser/Tidsey, the sons of Edward Tidsor by his second marriage.  These also show the 
changing occupation of the father Edward Tidsor.  He started out as a hatter, with his 
father and brothers.  When his father died in 1849, Edward apparently didn't inherit the 
shop, and so dropped out of the hat business.  In 1851 he was listed as a laborer in the 
Iron Foundry.  In 1861 he was a Laborer and his son Edward was an Iron Dresser.  
In 1862 Edward Sr. was an Iron Moulder, and in 1866 he was a Sand Miner.
          I did not find a marriage record for any of Edward's first three children, Thomas, 
Emma, or Frederick.  Thomas was married in 1854, but probably by the Mormon 
Missionaries, and so it doesn't appear in the Church of England Parish Registers.  Emma 
married a Mr. Pimplet, but I need to search further to find them.  The IGI shows that 
Frederick was married to a woman named Elizabeth.  Perhaps this is the Elizabeth 
Lefton who was mentioned in the Logan Temple Baptisms for the dead as an aunt to 
Susanna Titenser Larsen.  I did further searches in the 1841 census, and the 1851 census.  
The 1841 was not indexed, and the index to the 1851 census was missing from the shelf.  
However I found all of the families in 1851 grouped together in one small neighborhood 
in the heart of Manchester.  In 1841, I found the family of Thomas Tidsor and his wife Ann.  
They were ages 60-65, and both claimed to have been born in Lancashire.  With them 
was their son William Tidsor age 20, and also their grandson Frederick, son of Edward, 
who was age 5.  Living with them in the same house was James and Elizabeth Siddell, who 
were 25 to 30 years of age. With them were their children Ann age 7 and Thomas age 3.  
Nearby I found Joseph Tidsor with his wife Hannah and their two children Betsy and Mary.  
As mentioned I also found widow Ann Drinkwater with her children in the same 
neighborhood.  I did not find Edward Tidsor in the Census in that year.
          In the 1851 census, I found the children of Thomas Tidsor living in the same 
neighborhood.  However, Thomas was dead by this time.  I found James and Elizabeth 
Siddell at the family home on Sandford St.  With them were their children Anna, Thomas, 
and William.  Also in their home was Ann, the mother of Elizabeth, who was now 70 years 
old and listed as born in Wales.  Also in 1851 I found Joseph Tedsor with his children 
Betsey, Mary, and George.  Near him on Pott Street was William Tidsea, with his wife 
Sarah and their children Ann, Mary, and Joseph.
          I had long since used up my time, and had to quit, but before doing so, I searched 
the vital registration of Births in England for entries for Edward Jr„ John, and Reuben.  I 
searched the whole period of 1841 to 1846 for all Tidsers.  I found that all of the Tidser, 
Tidsor, Tidsey entries were for Manchester, which is an indication that the name was 
pretty much adapted to that local. We need to send for a copy of these birth records, so 
that we can have a complete record to submit for temple work.  Where we are unable 
to get a complete record we will be able to submit with what we have.  Also while 
searching these birth indexes, I found two or three births for Tidsor children in 
Manchester who don't fit in the families I have found.  Or at least I don't know how they 
fit.  They may be children who died and therefore didn't appear on the census, or else 
they may be an indication of another Tidsor family I haven't yet identified.  We should 
send for copies of these births to find out. The library here, has film copies of the parish 
registers of the various parishes in Manchester, most of them that is.  But I have found 
in this search that the christenings of the  children of Thomas Tidsor (1778-1849) and 
the christenings of the children of Edward Tidsor do not appear in the Cathedral Church 
where the marriages for the Tidsors all appear.  That may mean that they attended a 
smaller chapel elsewhere in the city and are recorded there, or it may mean that they 
belonged to a different church, but married in the Church of England because of the law 
requiring it.   That law ended in  1853,  which is  why Thomas Titensor and Sarah 
Bobbins weren't listed in the Cathedral Church records.
          I spent a great deal of time searching the Christening Records of Cathedral Church 
for some record of the children of these two families, but found none of them.  The other 
children of Thomas and Ann Tidsor, all had children christened there, so they must have 
married individuals with a commitment to the Church of England.  Some of the other 
children of Edward and his two wives also had their marriages and children on record at 
Cathedral Church.  It is possible that Thomas. Sr. and Edward were non conformists, that 
is that they attended one of the other churches such as Baptist and Methodist faiths.  We 
know that part of the family joined the Mormon Church.  However, most of the 
nonconformist church records were extracted and put into the computer many years ago, 
and should have appeared on the IGI.  This means we need to spread our search 
out somewhat and identify the specific chapels of the Church of England that they might 
have attended at the time when your family lived there.
          I noted as I searched the census records that when Thomas Tidsor died in 1849, 
the address where they lived then belonged to James and Elizabeth Siddell.  This appears 
to have been a family owned shop and home, and the apparent transfer o f property 
indicates that Thomas Sr. may have left a will or some other type of probate.  This would 
be good to search.  During my searches I also found the birth, marriage and family of Philip
Rogerson and Mary Lomax.  I need to spend more time on them to fill out there line and 
trace them back further, but at this point I feel we should continue to concentrate on the 
Titensor line.  I added the new information that I found in this period of research to that 
which I had already imputed, and have produced the attached pedigree and family group 
sheets.  Note that with this information I have been able to produce a family for Thomas 
Tidsor and Ann Penlison consisting of at least five people of which only one, at this point, 
has had temple work done.
          Therefore in this period of research we have determined at least 7 people who 
need to have work done, and there will be more as learn more about the family and their
relationships.  This initial period of research required more time than planned for, but now 
we are ready to begin serious research efforts, and to begin completing temple work on 
these families where the church extraction program might not have been complete.
James W. Petty

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Larsen History Index Page

Dennis Larsen
10890 Bohm Place
Sandy, UT 84094