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TITENSOR RESEARCH by Jim Petty con't.

John A. Larsen                                                                April 26, 1991


2004 Terra Linda Dr.
Salt Lake City, Utah 84124
Dear President Larsen:


     In November I started off with research fast and furious; in part because my ward and 
stake were involved inour Temple Ancestral Day push and needed to turn names in by mid 
November.  I had assured your son Brent that I would have names in the temple from his 
lines.  I had one name in reserve.  That was for Thomas Tidser, son of William Tidser and 
Sarah Potter who was born June 23, 1844.  I had gotten his birth certificate later than those 
that I gave you last Summer, and his name hadn't been submitted yet.  This Thomas was a 
nephew of your ancestor Edward Tidser/Tittensor.  I wanted to find a whole family that 
Brent and his family could take to the temple, and to do so I though I might find it easiest 
through the Rogerson family.  So I headed off in that direction.  My logic was that if so 
many new records were becoming available in Lancashire, perhaps new information on 
the family of Philip Rogerson was now available.   What I found instead was that the 
parishes where the Rogersons had lived were parishes that had been filmed years ago, 
and most of the readily accessible information had long since beenextracted and the temple 
work done.  I ended up sending in the entry for Thomas Tidser, which by now has probably 
been done in the temple.
     After that I settled back on research pertaining to the Tidser, Tidsey, Tittensor lines as 
requested by you.  One of the reasons for the delay since November, was that I sent a letter 
to the Manchester Public Library to try to ascertain the whereabouts of the missing pages 
that were not filmed, of the manuscript of the Christ Church records that pertained to your 
family in Manchester.  They responded after a couple of letters that the manuscript they 
have is incomplete, and that he original had been with the family of the minister who had 
originally kept the records.  They couldn't tell me who had that record today.
     Before I get into my research on the Tidser/etc. lines, let me highlight what I found 
on the Rogerson lines.  In my previous research I had found Phillip Rogerson in the 1841 
census on Bradford St. in Manchester with his wife Mary and daughter Sarah.  Sarah was 
not christened when other children in her family were christened, and it may be that the 
Rogersons had follow other families like the Tidsors into nonconformist worship, and failed 
to have her christened at birth.  I found the christening or baptism of Sarah daughter of Philip 
and Mary Rogerson on Mar. 12, 1837 when she was about 12 years old.  I found Philip 
next on the 1851 census where he was listed as 80 years old, and born in Bold, Lancaster, 
England.  Bold is a village in the General Parish of Prescott, Lancashire.  The baptisms for 
the Dead that were performed by Thomas Titensor in 1885 for Philip Rogerson indicate 
that he was born at St. Ellen's.  St. Helen's is just a few miles from Bold, still within 
Prescott.  
Neither is where his christening records were made.   That was done in the Chapelry of 
Farnworth, which was a couple of miles south of Bold, and was also still in Prescott.  
Whereas we had previously had record only of Philip as the only child of Ralph and Mary
 Rogerson, I now found that there were at least four children for this couple, namely, 
Richard chr. 1756, Mary chr. 1770, Philip chr. 1772, and Sarah chr. 1777.  The big gap 
from 1756 to 1770 indicates to me that Ralph Rogerson must have had other children 
during that time period which have not yet been determined.  I obtained a photocopy of 
the marriage of Philip Rogerson to Mary Lomax on Sept. 23, 1798 At Bolton Le Moors, 
Lancashire.  I next concentrated on the Lomax family for a time.  I found myself in a 
dilemma here.  Mary Lomax Rogerson was listed in the 1851 census as being born about 
1778 in Bolton, Lancashire.  In the IGI I identified at least five  possibilities for Mary.  
Two were Marys who were born at Bolton in 1774, two were born at Dean near Bolton, a 
neighboring parish, in 1778, and one was born in another neighboring parish in 1778.  
I searched probate records and found numerous Lomaxes listed.  I realized that this was 
going to be a big search.  I stopped at that point because I needed to return to the search 
on the Titensor line.
     My approach now on the Titensor line is in three directions.  One is to try to identify 
possibilities for the  parentage of Thomas Tidser in Staffordshire.  Many records in 
Staffordshire have been extracted and there  are several Thomas's born at about the time 
when your ancestor was born.  If we can identify each of these and work to prove or 
disprove each of them we may identify the correct one by elimination.  The second 
approach is to try to identify Thomas's family, his wife and children, and learn as much 
about him and them in a historical setting.  That entails searching the records of each of 
the communities that we know they lived in from the birth of Edward in 1805 or 1807, 
to the birth of William in 1818.  We have never found their christening records or 
confirmed birth records, and finding these will help us prove all of the members of the 
family.
     It is likely that Thomas and his family were nonconformists from the beginning, which 
also means that some of the records may no longer exist. But certain records should exist. 
Most important is finding the marriage of Thomas Tidser and Ann Penlisson.  She was 
Welsh and he may have married her there.  It was law that all marriages had to be recorded
 in the Church of England.  So somewhere we should be able to find them.  We know 
virtually nothing of her, so finding that record is a priority.  It may also lead us to his 
family, or tell us where he came from.   My third approach is to continue searching for the 
descendants of Thomas Tidser.  In part this  fulfills missionary work to seek out all of his 
family so that the gospel can be taught to them and their work done, and in part it 
completes the family groups that we have been preparing and adding to.  It may also lead 
us to new information.  There may be relative of yours in England today who are working 
on their genealogy from there end of the lines, and they may have answers that are otherwise 
unavailable to us.  I have been doing that with some of my own family in England and have 
contacted distant cousins, and they have been supplying me with hundreds of names and 
dates, which are all being sent in for temple work.
     Based on this approach, my findings on the Titensor lines are as follows:
	Parentage of Thomas Tidser - The two best possibilities for the birth of Thomas 
Tidser/Titensor are as	follows:
		Thomas Tittensor, son of William Tittensor of Newcastle Under Lyme, 
                               Stafford, christened 9 Jan 1780.
		Thomas Tittensor, son of Edward Tittensor of Newcastle Under Lyme, 
                               Stafford, christened 12 Apr 1784.

     The first one here is important because it occurs in 1780, the year your Thomas was 
born.  However, with respect to this, a Thomas Tittensor was married in Newcastle under 
Lyme to Ellen Collier on 21 Sep 1801. That would also fit the first Thomas.  However, I 
have nothing yet that proves that they are the same person.  The second entry is of interest 
because it appears that your ancestor Edward Tittensor was the eldest son of Thomas.  
Traditional naming patterns are that the first son is named for the Father's Father.  Thus it 
would fit that Thomas in turn was the son of an Edward.  I searched for probate records 
in Stafford that might clarify matters and I found papers of administration on the estate of 
Edward Tittensor of Tunstall, in Burslem Parish, which borders Newcastle, under Lyme.  
These occurred in 1805.  Edward was a dealer in earthenware vessels.
     Unfortunately the probate papers only mention the widow Elizabeth Tittensor, and none 
of the children are named.  But this leads us to Burslem parish, which we will need to check.  
I don't want to lead you astray.  When I say that these are the best possibilities for Thomas, 
I am referring to those entries that appear in the IGI.  We may find other records in other 
parish registers that haven't been extracted yet.

Present Family Approach -
I have gathered a list of about three dozen sources to search pertaining to Droylstown, 
Ashton upon Lyme, Hyde, Gee Cross, and the surrounding communities, which are 
where Thomas and his family supposedly were during the period 1805 to 1818.  After 
that he moved into the Manchester area.  I hope to find references to him, christenings
for his children, and other clues pertaining to his family, and possible related families.

Descendants -
I focused on finding two of the children of Edward Titensor and Mary Rogerson, namely 
Emma who was born in 1831, and Frederick who was born in 1834.  We have an exact 
birthdate for Emma, and also a death date.  We knew from temple records that she was 
married to a Mr. Pimplet, but we knew nothing of him. Emma was in the 1841 census 
listed in her grandparents home.  In 1851 she was a servant in the home of James Staples.  
I searched vital records indexes from March of 1851 to 1855 to find reference to her 
marriage.  I located it in the December quarter of 1854.  She is listed in the index as Emma 
Titterson (the transcriber apparently got the r and n confused), and the groom is John Pimlett.  
I have sent for their marriage record.  Once we have that we can also identify his parentage 
so that all of his temple work can be done.
     I searched city directories for 1861 and 1874 to find John Pimlett or Pimlott, and found 

several entries.  I pursued one of these that was on Cornwall Street on Oldham Road.  
This was within a few blocks of Pott Street where the Tidser families lived.  After much 
searching I finally located them in the 1861 census only to find that it was the wrong John.  
I will have to track down the several others a bit later.
     On Frederick Tidser, I also located him in the 1861 and 1874 city directories under the 
name Tidsey.  He was an Iron Monger and I had specific addresses for him in both 
directories.  I searched the 1861 and 1871 censuses for both addresses, found both, 
and he wasn't at either one.  He apparently had been moving around.  According to 
temple records Frederick died in 1874, but I couldn't find him listed in the death indexes 
for that year.  I need to expand that search so that I can get his death record, which 
should give us a more complete age at death, and therefore a better birthdate than that 
which we have.  I also need to finish my search of the marriage indexes.  I quit at the end 
of 1854 when I found Emma's marriage listing, but Frederick was married sometime 
between 1854 and 1858 when he and his wife Elizabeth had their daughter Martha.
      When we locate Frederick and Emma with their families in the 1861 and 1871 
censuses we will get the names of their children, and we can then locate their birth 
records and send the names in for temple work.  For these later families I expect that we 
might also begin locating probate records which may tell us more about their families.
One of the next steps that we need. to begin is a comprehensive search of vital records 
indexes for all births, marriages, and deaths of Tidser/Tittenser family members so that 
we can have a complete record on the family and so that we can better identify individuals 
that were not in church records and so may have been missed on our family groups.  This 
may also help us to identify other relatives of the family who lived in that area of England.
My next report will come much quicker than this one did.  And I hope to have more 
information that will be able to be turned in for temple work.
Sincerely,
James W. Petty
Genealogist

Larsen Family Organization June 19. 1991 John A. Larsen 2004 Terra Linda Dr. Salt Lake City, Utah 84124 Dear President Larsen: I have completed the time allotted for this period of research. I wish I could report that I had found another whole church full of Tidsers as I did last year, but we're back at the point of hunting for an elusive family that were not members of the orthodox religion, and who were poor as well. So anything we find is good and is a step forward. I have obtained the marriage of Emma Titensor to John Pimlett of Manchester, and I have located the marriage entry for Frederick Tidser in the indices and have sent for a copy of his marriage record. That should arrive in a few weeks. As soon as it does I will submit the information for temple work. I have proceeded with my searches as outlined in my last report. My concentration has been on identifying possible Tidser and Tittensor families in Staffordshire, and also in searching for the Penlissen family of Wales, with the hope that finding that family will lead us to the marriage of Thomas Tittensor/Tidser to Ann Penlissen. My search for the Penlissen family was frustrating, and ended in total failure, I mean total, I searched probate indexes, I.G.I., church indexes, marriage allegations Indexes, surname dictionaries and other genealogy collection Indexes. I found no record of the name Penlissen or any variation, at all. I searched civil registration indexes, and census indexes in and around Manchester, and found nothing resembling the name. I rechecked the temple records for when Ann Penlissens temple work was done in 1885 and 1886, in Logan, and confirmed that spelling. That was the way the family remembered her name as sounding. Remember that they were not a very literate people, and spelled things he way they sounded or as they remembered. Consequently, what I believe has to happen is that we will need to locate the marriage of Thomas and Ann first, and hope that that will lead us to her parents. Another step that needs to be taken is to search the death indices from 1851 on searching for the death record of Ann Tidser/Tidsey/Tidsea/Titensor or Ann Siddel. Ann (no surname) appeared in the 1851 census of Manchester in the home of James Siddel and his wife Elizabeth Tidser Siddel (daughter of Thomas and Ann Tidser). She was 70 years old, and born in Wales, and her relationship to the head of house was "Mother" . Normally, the lack of a surname would indicate "ditto" meaning that she was Ann Siddel, mother of James. But name, age, and birthplace she fits Elizabeth's :Mother, Ann Penilssen Tidser, perfectly. If we can locate a death record, it will give us her correct age, and verify if she is Tidser or Siddel, and it may give us clues to lead us to her family. On the Tidsor/Titensor search, I followed up on the family I left off with in my last search. As you will recall, that was an Edward and Elizabeth Tittensor of Burslem and Tunstall, in Staffordshire. He in 1805 leaving no will, but having left family. I was following up on him because I had previously found two possibilities for the parents of Thomas Tidser. Either he was the son of Thomas Titensor of Newcastle under Lyme, christened in 1781, or he was the son of Edward Titensor, christened in 1784 also in Newcastle under Lyme. I had found a Thomas Tittensor who was married in 1801 in Newcastle who wasn't your Thomas but who might have been the Thomas christened in 1781. With this in mind I set the earlier christening aside while I sought to prove or disprove the 1784 Christening. I have leaned towards this choice because The father was Edward, and Thomas in turn named his eldest son Edward. I looked through the records of Burslem and Tunstall and located the births of Ann, Samuel, Elizabeth, Samuel Harrison, and John Tittensor, children of Edward and Elizabeth Tittensor of Burslem. They were born between 1792 and 1805. The name Samuel Harrison for one of the children also served to identify the marriage of Edward Tittensor to Elizabeth Harrison in Wolstanton in 1791 as the correct parents of this family, 1791 is much too early to fit and so this family is eliminated. The family found in the records of Newcastle under Lyme consisted of Thomas 1784, Joseph 1787, Mary 1787, John 1789, Edward 1794, and Ann 1795. These were all christening dates, and so the children may have been born weeks or even years before. According to census records your Thomas was born about 1780 or 1781, so the entry shown here is close. Searching the marriage records I identified this Edward as married to Ann Lockett in the neighboring parish of Whitmore on Sept. 12, 1779. Both were of the neighboring parish of Stoke Upon Trent. There is no record of any children prior to Thomas in all of northern Stafford or eastern Cheshire that I have been able to locate, born to Edward after his marriage in 1779, so it is very possible that This Thomas was born in about 1781 and christened in 1874. I searched the records of Stoke upon Trent and found no other children for them. Searching the records of Stoke along with the IGI I found that Edward was born in Stoke, and was christened Oct. 27, 1758, the illegitimate son of Elizabeth Titensor. I am inclined to believe that this is the correct line. The family names fit hand in glove with those used in later generations in Manchester. However we need to continue searching for additional clues to verify if this or the Thomas son of Thomas is the correct line to follow. On the matter of the John Pimlett/Emma Tittensor marriage certificate, this led me on a worried search for a short time. The certificate was received showing the marriage to have taken place at St. Phillip's Church in Manchester, on Nov. 7, 1854. John was the son of William Pimlett, a shoemaker. John himself was a baker. It was Emma that worried me. She was listed as Emma Titterson rather than Tittensor. And her father was listed as Egbert Titterson. For a short time I thought I had found the wrong marriage, but later as I reviewed the record I recognized the address where the Titterson family resided in 1854, 22 Peel Street, and found that in 1851, Edward Tidser and his family, including Emma lived at that exact address. Emma couldn't write to sign her name, and the clerk had erred. As part of my search on the Penlissen line, I returned to the LDS Temple records to confirm her name and temple work. At that time I searched Endowment and Sealings of Couples, and discovered that most of the names that we had found in the baptism records had never received ordinances of endowments or sealings. There are a number of the names in the baptisms whom I do not know exactly how they are related. Part of this is due to the fact that I do not have information on the Robbins line, and some of these entries pertained to that part of the family. I was surprised to find that only four sealings of deceased couples were performed during the lifetime of Thomas Titensor, your immigrant grandfather. In 1885 He and Elizabeth Bradberry Titensor performed the sealing of Joseph Bradbury to Elizabeth Simpson. I had found neither of these names in the baptisms performed by Thomas, so I need to search those further (It might be that they were already members in England, and so no baptism was necessary). Also in 1885, Thomas Titensor (as a living individual) was sealed in marriage to two other deceased women, namely, Elizabeth Simpson, and also Harriett Grange. In 1887, Thomas Tittensor and Sarah Robbins Tittensor, his wife, were sealed for George Robbins and Mary Ann Thompson. The records showed that this couple had been members of the church in Manchester, and so didn't appear on the Baptisms for the Dead records. Of the other names found in the baptisms, such as cousins Mary, Alice, Susanna, and Elizabeth Sutton of Manchester, Aunt Sarah Brown, niece Elizabeth Higgenbotham, Aunts Susanna and Elizabeth Wesley all of Manchester, of none of these do I have any information. If we can identify their families I am sure that we will learn more of the family and send in more names. Sincerely, James W. Petty Genealogist
previous page

Certificates

BIRTH

John Tidser (8 Nov 1843, son of Edward Tidser and Nancy Whittaker Tidser) Reuben Tidsey (5 Feb 1846, son of Edward Tidsey and Nancy Whittaker Tidsey Sarah Tidser (27 Dec 1841, daughter of Joseph Tidser and Hannah Bentley Tidser) Thomas Tidser (23 June 1844, son of William Tidser and Sarah Potter Tidser)

MARRIAGE

John Pimlett and Emma Tittensor (7 Nov 1854, children of William Pimlett and Egbert Tittensor) Edward Tidser (widower) and Ann Richardson (widow) (9 Feb 1841, children of Thomas Tidser and William Whittaker) Fredrick Tidser and Elizabeth Sephton (25 Feb 1856, children of Edward Tidser and Peter Sephton) Thomas Titensor and Sarah Robbins (1 Apr 1854, children of Edward Titensor and George Robbins)

DEATH

George Robins (14 Oct 1864, age 76 years, information given by Harriet Robins - present at death) Susannah Robbins (17 Feb 1876, age 85, widow of George Robbins, information given by daughter Ellen Hindley - present at death) Thomas Tidsey (20 Sep 1849, age 69 years, information given by Nancy Tidsey - present at death)

LINKS

RETURN TO LARSEN MAIN PAGE
Go to Titensor Research by Shirley Gardner
Go to History Index Page